Bailout

[Phaedrus]

http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/government.jpg

[Phaedrus]

more to the point, I found this one.

http://icanhazbailout.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/wamu.jpg

[Demilitch]

Ok, so now that you have brought the shit up. Lets talk about it. Good or bad idea? While I would usually not agree with letting the government bail out the failures, its the people who are getting screwed. As much as I hate to admit it, I don't think its a bad idea. I am honestly a little worried about the precedent it sets thought.

[Phaedrus]

Well, there's a catch. There's ALWAYS a catch (and yes, I intentionally started this thread for the discussion). While a bailout may prevent a full blown crash (think Black Tuesday) the downside of this is that it allows the market to continue being served by the same companies that helped bury it. But, that's not the worst part. We still hit MAJOR recession as 700 Billion from the Federal Reserve destroys the value of the dollar.

It's a fucked up situation, no matter how it goes, and it's the governments fault for letting it get there. The Left pushed and pushed for the Lending Market to make homes available for everyone, so it went from needing 20% down, to 0% down to financing 120% of a home's value and adjustable rate mortgages. It was a disaster waiting to happen and EVERYBODY knew it (except maybe for the stupid fucking democrats who said this was a good idea).

So what happens if there is no bailout? The market crashes hard and everything is allowed to reset. The 2nd great depression grips the country and we suffer for about 12 years until slowly things start to recover. Everything drops, including the price for things (except petroleum based products), but they don't drop as sharply as income. 40% or better take pay cuts. close to 5% of the population lose their jobs, and unemployment hits near record number highs. Well... you can see hos this doesn't well, either.

Part of me says fuck 'em. They get what they deserve and they DESERVE to go out of business. Another part of me realizes what's going to happen either way, and that is a polar opposite reaction by creditors. Credit will be nearly impossible to attain. people's credit card limits are going to be reduced, rates will skyrocket, and drive themselves further into debt. Nobody will be able to buy a home unless they have perfect credit and at LEAST 20% down.

Businesses will find their credit lines drying up, or severely shortened. Net 90 terms will become net 30 terms, and net 30 will become net 15. The economy will screech to a hault as businesses will find it nearly impossible to grow. Bailouts won't happen for small companies who can't get credit to buy the things they need to get their startup off the ground. Medium sized B2B solution providers won't have smaller companies to support. It will be a huge mess.

We're fucked.

[dolemite]

There's definitely no shortage of finger pointing. A lot of blame to go around. I think though from a "geek I.T." background and being so determined to find the root cause of a problem I'd have to say the Iraq war is to blame (for the severity of this crisis anyway), therefore for the most part Bush and his mess factory is the root cause. There was a comprehensive article (forbes or wsjournal can't recall) on how the 600+ billion spent on Iraq, 10 billion or more per month, destabilization of the ME, our good standing in the world ruined, and Oil chaos etc was basically what pushed it all over the edge. Anyhoo..

[Demilitch]

Hrm... maybe Japan will buy us.

[Dismembered3po]

The Left pushed and pushed for the Lending Market to make homes available for everyone, so it went from needing 20% down, to 0% down to financing 120% of a home's value and adjustable rate mortgages. It was a disaster waiting to happen and EVERYBODY knew it (except maybe for the stupid fucking democrats who said this was a good idea).

No. This is all a function of deregulation. The deregulation pushed by CONSERVATIVE interests in pretty much every area. I've said this before. If the regulations hadn't gone away, leaving the banks to do as they wish (make money for themselves at the expense of economic stability).

I'm hoping that the bailout plan will put back some of the regulation, force the banks to answer to the Fed instead of self-policing. If we pass a bailout package without that, then we don't stand a chance.

[Phaedrus]

The Iraq war didn't cause banks to lend 120% of a home's value to people who only make 45K a year, have two car payments, and two kids. Bush didn't urge financial institutions to stretch themselves too thin in their lending practices. Blaming the mortgage crisis on the Bush administration's foreign policy and international standings has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard anybody say ever.

Now, that's not to say that there are not things that aren't completely at his feet to take ownership for that helped caused this crisis. Just because you hate Bush and Republicans doesn't mean they are to blame for everything. That is, unless you only watch MSNBC and CNN while reading your daily subscription emails from Moveon.org.

This whole mortgage crisis business is the fault of the government, the financial institutions, AND the mortgaged home owners who have no idea how to manage their money and with a sense of responsibility. That's right -- it's EVERYBODY'S fault.

Common sense has been completely cast aside by everybody. It's just that the problem begain with government's thinking that everybody DESERVES a house to live in. Some people have not earned because they haven't figured out how to manage debt with cash flow. Hell, this something I am still learning. While I may be in some debt, I have not chosen the easy path of defaulting on a mortgage payment. We've just worked ot restructure ourselves so that we can keep what we do have, while still being able to live. In today's society, nobody wants to do that. It's in the moment, and it's got to be THIS moment for everything. Entitlement mentality is an affliction that has destroyed this country and it's economy.

[12-gauge]

Puhlease, MSNBC & CNN????? I get my new from the more reliable FOXNews.

Bailout or no bailout, we're still in for getting screwed for a while. I think the thing about the bailout that was pissing me off the most was how the bigwigs were getting millions out of it. They should be hung out to dry just like the Enron execs were. They are who I ultimately blame for it all. It was their business and they turned their cheeks the other way due to the amount of money they were raking in. Those people weren't stupid and had to have realized that it wasn't going to be like that forever.

[Mr_Pink]

Quick question to all the US residents. What type of effect is this going to have on neighboring countries? Say Canada, where I live.

[Phaedrus]

The Canadian dollar will probably buy more here. Probably not much else. Maybe some slumping in the job market, but mostly as a rippling effect.

[Demilitch]

I'm actually working on my plans for releasing hell on earth due to this. .... again.

[Dismembered3po]

I should think that anything that helps the US economy stabilize is going to be helpful to the global economy as a whole, and thus Canada. I mean, the crisis is having widespread effects on the markets everywhere, so if this bailout does have the effect of stabilizing things, then it should stabilize the global economy to some extent as well. I mean, here in Oz, the markets and the value of the AUS Dollar reflect greatly what's happening over there. There's even a credit crunch to an extent and some housing issues. Not to the extent that there is in the US, certainly, but because lots of the "bad mortgage investments" were invested in by banks all over the world, there is some fallout everywhere.

[Phaedrus]

It didn't pass. Nay 225. Yea 203. In the final 2 minutes of voting, the Dow dropped 603 points.

Yikes.

[dolemite]

BAILOUT FAIL

700+pt drop in the market

Anyone got anything left in their 401k?

What now??? This is some crazy shit.. wow

[dolemite]

It didn't pass. Nay 225. Yea 203. In the final 2 minutes of voting, the Dow dropped 603 points.

Yikes.

You're avatar is looking good today..

[Demilitch]

Heh, boy am I glad I moved my investments a few months ago. This is some crazy shit. Let the world of MAD MAX begin!!!

[Phaedrus]

the fucking bank crisis... the fucking GAS crisis here. Shit, I need a hockey mask and a dune buggy STAT.

[Demilitch]

OMG! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGqroT1FZ5Y)

[Phaedrus]

Just walk away (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TL4XZdyo3g)

[Mesbestud]

The end is near. Bring out your dead.

Register to send notifications to your loved ones.

http://www.raptureletters.com/

[Dismembered3po]

HAHA!

[Dismembered3po]

I was honestly thinking that, since they got the control of the executive bonuses in there, that this was going to pass.

I hate that Pellosi made a crazy political speech just before the most important vote since...well, maybe ever. Way to go.

[Mesbestud]

Well, there's a catch. There's ALWAYS a catch (and yes, I intentionally started this thread for the discussion). While a bailout may prevent a full blown crash (think Black Tuesday) the downside of this is that it allows the market to continue being served by the same companies that helped bury it. But, that's not the worst part. We still hit MAJOR recession as 700 Billion from the Federal Reserve destroys the value of the dollar.

It's a fucked up situation, no matter how it goes, and it's the governments fault for letting it get there. The Left pushed and pushed for the Lending Market to make homes available for everyone, so it went from needing 20% down, to 0% down to financing 120% of a home's value and adjustable rate mortgages. It was a disaster waiting to happen and EVERYBODY knew it (except maybe for the stupid fucking democrats who said this was a good idea).

So what happens if there is no bailout? The market crashes hard and everything is allowed to reset. The 2nd great depression grips the country and we suffer for about 12 years until slowly things start to recover. Everything drops, including the price for things (except petroleum based products), but they don't drop as sharply as income. 40% or better take pay cuts. close to 5% of the population lose their jobs, and unemployment hits near record number highs. Well... you can see hos this doesn't well, either.

Part of me says fuck 'em. They get what they deserve and they DESERVE to go out of business. Another part of me realizes what's going to happen either way, and that is a polar opposite reaction by creditors. Credit will be nearly impossible to attain. people's credit card limits are going to be reduced, rates will skyrocket, and drive themselves further into debt. Nobody will be able to buy a home unless they have perfect credit and at LEAST 20% down.

Businesses will find their credit lines drying up, or severely shortened. Net 90 terms will become net 30 terms, and net 30 will become net 15. The economy will screech to a hault as businesses will find it nearly impossible to grow. Bailouts won't happen for small companies who can't get credit to buy the things they need to get their startup off the ground. Medium sized B2B solution providers won't have smaller companies to support. It will be a huge mess.

We're fucked.


DAMN. Just listen and watch as our great leader describes this in layman terms.
http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://youtube.com/watch%3Fv=z%5FFDRjluLJQ











Now.....don't you have a better understanding?

[Phaedrus]

It's a poor illustration, but the point is actually pretty true.